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::The community reached verbal consensus on this issue long before we had a MOS page. In fact, I believe it was back when we were still in Plone. The decision was for all links that lead outside FamilySearch to spawn a new window. I don't mind us having the discussion again, but until that initial decision is overturned, all external links (including those from templates) need to spawn a new window. It is confusing to users if we have some external links spawn a new window and others use the current window. In the meantime, the MOS needs to reflect this rule. [[User:Ritcheymt|Ritcheymt]] 19:43, 6 October 2009 (UTC) | ::The community reached verbal consensus on this issue long before we had a MOS page. In fact, I believe it was back when we were still in Plone. The decision was for all links that lead outside FamilySearch to spawn a new window. I don't mind us having the discussion again, but until that initial decision is overturned, all external links (including those from templates) need to spawn a new window. It is confusing to users if we have some external links spawn a new window and others use the current window. In the meantime, the MOS needs to reflect this rule. [[User:Ritcheymt|Ritcheymt]] 19:43, 6 October 2009 (UTC) | ||
== Case against spawning new windows for external links == | == Case against spawning new windows for external links == | ||
This latest discussion started when I used the InterWiki feature to create this template that can be used to link to articles in Wikipedia. I feel that it has opened up the a bigger discussion about all external links in the wiki, which currently spawn new windows/tabs. I think this is a mistake. It used to be common practise, but for the past 10 years has been seen as poor design and now [http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG/ violates Web Content Accessibility Guidelines]. | |||
<blockquote>Opening up new browser windows is like a vacuum cleaner sales person who starts a visit by emptying an ash tray on the customer's carpet. Don't pollute my screen with any more windows, thanks (particularly since current operating systems have miserable window management). If I want a new window, I will open it myself! | This latest discussion started when I used the InterWiki feature to create this template that can be used to link to articles in Wikipedia. I feel that it has opened up the a bigger discussion about all external links in the wiki, which currently spawn new windows/tabs. I think this is a mistake. It used to be common practise, but for the past 10 years has been seen as poor design and now [http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG/ violates Web Content Accessibility Guidelines]. | ||
<blockquote>If your user wants to open the link in a new window, he or she can do so quite easily with most browsers; there is no need to force the issue. It's about leaving the user the freedom to navigate in the way that works best for him or her. -- [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-validator/2002Apr/0100.html Thanasis Kinias, 21 Apr 2002]</blockquote> | <blockquote>Opening up new browser windows is like a vacuum cleaner sales person who starts a visit by emptying an ash tray on the customer's carpet. Don't pollute my screen with any more windows, thanks (particularly since current operating systems have miserable window management). If I want a new window, I will open it myself! Designers open new browser windows on the theory that it keeps users on their site. But even disregarding the '''user-hostile message implied in taking over the user's machine''', the strategy is self-defeating since it disables the ''Back'' button which is the normal way users return to previous sites. Users often don't notice that a new window has opened, especially if they are using a small monitor where the windows are maximized to fill up the screen. So a user who tries to return to the origin will be confused by a grayed out ''Back'' button. --{{wpd|Jakob Nielsen (usability consultant)|Jakob Nielsen}}, [http://www.useit.com/alertbox/990530.html The Top Ten Web Design Mistakes of 1999, No 2. Opening New Browser Windows] </blockquote> <blockquote>If your user wants to open the link in a new window, he or she can do so quite easily with most browsers; there is no need to force the issue. It's about leaving the user the freedom to navigate in the way that works best for him or her. -- [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-validator/2002Apr/0100.html Thanasis Kinias, 21 Apr 2002]</blockquote> | ||
See also [http://www.webnauts.net/new-window.html Avoid forcing to open in a new window], [http://www.webpronews.com/user/john-britsios John Britsios] and [http://www.webcredible.co.uk/user-friendly-resources/web-usability/new-browser-windows.shtml Beware of opening links in a new window, Neil Turner] --[[User:CottrellS|Steve]] 13:51, 8 October 2009 (UTC) | See also [http://www.webnauts.net/new-window.html Avoid forcing to open in a new window], [http://www.webpronews.com/user/john-britsios John Britsios] and [http://www.webcredible.co.uk/user-friendly-resources/web-usability/new-browser-windows.shtml Beware of opening links in a new window, Neil Turner] --[[User:CottrellS|Steve]] 13:51, 8 October 2009 (UTC) | ||
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Almost all of those links, to me, look like personal opinions. A quick search produced other person opinions too, such as [http://www.webproworld.com/submit-your-site-review/999-online-shopping-mall-boise-idaho-www-boiseonlinemall-com.html#post6670 Tika Web Development Group] where he says: | |||
<blockquote>In fact, any link to an external URL should open a new window. Once they're gone, you risk losing them forever.</blockquote> | |||
To me, this seems like this is from a purely marketing point of view. | |||
Taking a look at the latest [http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/ Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG)] that you mentioned, the only mention I found about this is related to "change of context" (such as opening new window) in what can be interpreted as two conflicting statements as follows: | |||
#Without user awareness. | |||
#Initiated only by user request or a mechanism is available to turn off such changes | |||
I can see that a visual awareness (such as the little icon that is next to external links) to the user could be considered user awareness. I do realize that this would not be acceptable to the visually impaired. One thing that I believe is important, as Michael mentioned, consistency (not in so few words). At this time, the Research Wiki does not distinguish between different types of external links (which interwiki links are external). May I suggest that interwiki links use an icon to indicate that it is an external link, but of the interwiki type? Until there is a distinction and there is a buy-off, I believe the consistent thing to do is to have interwiki links act just like external links. | |||
Just to make sure it is known, I am not against external links opening in the same window. MediaWiki tells the process for "[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Opening_external_links_in_a_new_window Opening external links in a new window]" and then says | |||
<blockquote>Keep in mind that some consider it rude to force new windows on your users.</blockquote> | |||
I would propose the following solution: | |||
*Give a visual indication of an interwiki type of external link. This may be a very nice solution for me so I can see that this link going to take me out of the Research Wiki so I can decide whether I want to open a new window or not. I realize that one can look at the status bar to look at the link, but have seen the status bar hidden in some Family History Centers (FHCs), etc. | |||
*Have interwiki links act the same as an external link since that is what was previously decided. If the decision changes, then interwiki links will change automatically as well. | |||
*To meet the guideline I listed as #2 above, have an option in the user's preference to cause external links to either open in the same window or in a new window. I realize that may be some engineering effort. | |||
Especially if the change to the user's preferences is not an option . . . Maybe a very good way of deciding would be to create a study group of currently non-Wiki and not so "computer literate" genealogists. I would much rather see these type of people (which may be more than 90% of the users) happy than to follow guidelines set by "power users of the Internet". [[User:Thomas Lerman|Thomas Lerman]] 15:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC) | |||