FamilySearch Wiki talk:Source Citation Formats: Difference between revisions

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== Turabian? Shown Mills? Chicago? Oh my!  ==
== Turabian? Shown Mills? Chicago? Oh my!  ==


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Both Turabian and Mills are based on Chicago. You can readily use Chicago for anything that it addresses: books, articles, etc. Mills extends the principles in the Chicago manual to cover the myriad manuscript sources we need citations for as genealogists. Wikipedia uses templates so that you don't need to know the format--You just use the template and Wikipedia formats the citation for you. Currently, I do not believe that it is a user-friendly process (but it is a bit easier than doing it from scratch)--but it's on the right track. I believe we should use the template idea and improve upon it. Steven M. Law [[User:Bibliostuff|Bibliostuff]]&nbsp; 17:27, 17 Aug 2009.<br>  
Both Turabian and Mills are based on Chicago. You can readily use Chicago for anything that it addresses: books, articles, etc. Mills extends the principles in the Chicago manual to cover the myriad manuscript sources we need citations for as genealogists. Wikipedia uses templates so that you don't need to know the format--You just use the template and Wikipedia formats the citation for you. Currently, I do not believe that it is a user-friendly process (but it is a bit easier than doing it from scratch)--but it's on the right track. I believe we should use the template idea and improve upon it. Steven M. Law [[User:Bibliostuff|Bibliostuff]]&nbsp; 17:27, 17 Aug 2009.<br>  


I am all for the use of templates as well. Then, if we change formats, just the template needs to change. I still would really like to see what each of the formats look like though. [[User:Thomas_Lerman|Thomas Lerman]] 01:27, 18 August 2009 (UTC)  
I am all for the use of templates as well. Then, if we change formats, just the template needs to change. I still would really like to see what each of the formats look like though. [[User:Thomas Lerman|Thomas Lerman]] 01:27, 18 August 2009 (UTC)  


As Steven points out, the choice among Chicago, Turabian, and Mills is virtually no choice at all. All three are theoretically the same.  
As Steven points out, the choice among Chicago, Turabian, and Mills is virtually no choice at all. All three are theoretically the same.  
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=== Multiple References to Citation  ===
=== Multiple References to Citation  ===


Looking at some pages, you will find a single source referenced multiple times, other pages will have each reference having its own reference to the same source. Does that make sense? An example of what I am referring to is [[New Sweden|New Sweden]]. This is an excellent page with excellent sources. I noticed that the first source is cited multiple times and then the second source is repeated multiple times. According to Diltsgd in the Talk page, the footnotes have problems when the second source is referenced once. If this is the case, that is a very bad bug in my opinion. [[User:Thomas_Lerman|Thomas Lerman]] 16:33, 17 May 2009 (UTC)  
Looking at some pages, you will find a single source referenced multiple times, other pages will have each reference having its own reference to the same source. Does that make sense? An example of what I am referring to is [[New Sweden|New Sweden]]. This is an excellent page with excellent sources. I noticed that the first source is cited multiple times and then the second source is repeated multiple times. According to Diltsgd in the Talk page, the footnotes have problems when the second source is referenced once. If this is the case, that is a very bad bug in my opinion. [[User:Thomas Lerman|Thomas Lerman]] 16:33, 17 May 2009 (UTC)  


:Thanks for the heads-up Thomas. I've added this issue to my user talk page's list of usability concerns to address with our coders. [[User:RitcheyMT|Ritcheymt]] 03:39, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
:Thanks for the heads-up Thomas. I've added this issue to my user talk page's list of usability concerns to address with our coders. [[User:RitcheyMT|Ritcheymt]] 03:39, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
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:Dropdown menu does not exist even in Wikipedia. It is not encouraged, to keep it simple worldwide. [[User:Dsammy|dsammy]] 19:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
:Dropdown menu does not exist even in Wikipedia. It is not encouraged, to keep it simple worldwide. [[User:Dsammy|dsammy]] 19:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


:Thank you Charlene. I think the easier it is for someone to source cite, the more likely they will create the citation. I am not sure how practical a dropdown list would be, I would encourage any brainstorming ideas. Even if they are not practical, it may stimulate other ideas. Even if Wikipedia does not have them, it is still technically possible. I am not sure who does not encourage them, it may be a personal preference. As I intimated, I do not think it is very practical due to the number of potential references and who is to say which are most referenced without starting global disputes? Likewise, I am not sure how practical a fill-in-the-blank form would be. It would be nice to see if someone can check out or request such an extension for the editor. This would be easier that going to another website, enter, copy &amp; paste, etc.. [[User:Thomas_Lerman|Thomas Lerman]] 19:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
:Thank you Charlene. I think the easier it is for someone to source cite, the more likely they will create the citation. I am not sure how practical a dropdown list would be, I would encourage any brainstorming ideas. Even if they are not practical, it may stimulate other ideas. Even if Wikipedia does not have them, it is still technically possible. I am not sure who does not encourage them, it may be a personal preference. As I intimated, I do not think it is very practical due to the number of potential references and who is to say which are most referenced without starting global disputes? Likewise, I am not sure how practical a fill-in-the-blank form would be. It would be nice to see if someone can check out or request such an extension for the editor. This would be easier that going to another website, enter, copy &amp; paste, etc.. [[User:Thomas Lerman|Thomas Lerman]] 19:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


I must say that reading through this discussion glazed my eyes over. I really do not remember what all of these source reference formats even look like. It would be nice if examples were shown to remind us about them. In the end, I believe the nicest thing would be to have an extension to the Editor that allows one to enter the source reference in a dialog box and then it formats it in a standard format. Does this type of thing exist? [[User:Thomas_Lerman|Thomas Lerman]] 14:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)  
I must say that reading through this discussion glazed my eyes over. I really do not remember what all of these source reference formats even look like. It would be nice if examples were shown to remind us about them. In the end, I believe the nicest thing would be to have an extension to the Editor that allows one to enter the source reference in a dialog box and then it formats it in a standard format. Does this type of thing exist? [[User:Thomas Lerman|Thomas Lerman]] 14:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)  


=== U.S. Professional Genealogist Standard<br>  ===
=== U.S. Professional Genealogist Standard<br>  ===
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[[User:RaymondRS|Robert]] 20:06, 3 September 2009 (UTC)  
[[User:RaymondRS|Robert]] 20:06, 3 September 2009 (UTC)  


<br>
<br>  


Since ''The BCG Genealogical Standards Manual'' was published ''Evidence Eplained!'' has been published and you can now find the following on the BCG website:<br>
Since ''The BCG Genealogical Standards Manual'' was published ''Evidence Eplained!'' has been published and you can now find the following on the BCG website:<br>  
<blockquote>
<blockquote>Question: Does it really matter what “style guides” I use for writing and citing? As style and reference guides, ''The BCG Genealogical Standards Manual'' recommends ''Chicago Manual of Style's'' ("humanities style,” not “scientific style”) and ''Evidence Explained! Citing History Sources from Artifacts to Cyberspace'' (which covers many original record types not handled by CMS). <br> </blockquote>  
Question: Does it really matter what “style guides” I use for writing and citing? As style and reference guides, ''The BCG Genealogical Standards Manual'' recommends ''Chicago Manual of Style's'' ("humanities style,” not “scientific style”) and ''Evidence Explained! Citing History Sources from Artifacts to Cyberspace'' (which covers many original record types not handled by CMS). <br>
[[User:Bibliostuff|Steve]] 16:30, 14 Sep 2009  
</blockquote>
[[User:Bibliostuff|Steve]] 16:30, 14 Sep 2009


=== References  ===
=== References  ===
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=== Related pages  ===
=== Related pages  ===


[[FamilySearch Wiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]
[[FamilySearch Wiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]  


== Suggested citation policy  ==
== Suggested citation policy  ==


This topic of how to cite sources has been raised anew in the forum (see ''[http://forums.familysearch.org/en/showthread.php?t=6523 Citations]''). In my opinion have a source is more important than the style used, but mixing styles on the same page would be confusing so I propose that the wiki adopts something along these lines.  
This topic of how to cite sources has been raised anew in the forum (see ''[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rEZY7SPM2yZz8C93WzughEHyYziughO4KWTO5XdGnVw/edit Citations]''). In my opinion have a source is more important than the style used, but mixing styles on the same page would be confusing so I propose that the wiki adopts something along these lines.  


#Let everyone use the style they feel works best  
#Let everyone use the style they feel works best  
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